VaWolf82
Administrator
Posted 1 month ago
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In a weird way, you kind of tapped on why so many are getting frustrated with the injuries tune: it just sounds like whining.
Agree that excuses get old, especially when they only tell part of the story. The problem with the injury excuse is the assumption that things would have been dramatically better EXCEPT for the injuries. Just because State would have had a better team without the injuries, it is far from certain that the team w/o injuries would have produced dramatically more wins.
As far as the "so many that are frustrated with the injury tune", I don't need all of the fingers on one hand to count the posters that keep complaining about the injury excuse.
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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^And maybe it's just the alumni I speak too, but many are frustrated with 'injuries', whether it's an excuse from someone or something we hear on the news. Then again, I can probably count on two hands the posters that really get into most of these threads, so counting the frustrated people on one hand is probably about right. Honestly, whether you can count those "compaining about the injury excuse" on one hand or not, I'd say that if you can show me an NC State fan not frustrated by 3 years of injuries, I'll just flat-out show you an ill-informed fan.
I am done with the TOB fire/not fire etc until I see some football this year. I want to see how this staff deals with the problems from last year.
I'll grant you this: there is a lot of '???' about this season. We have a few injuries, but we got Tenuta. We moved some players around to strengthen the backfield, but we're questionable at RB. Basically, TOB has 3 data points that look pretty bad. If TOB can lead this team to a 7-8 win season with a 'nice' bowl performance, then fans can start entertaining the idea that those first few years he really was 'a victim of his surroundings'. Again, there is a big difference between evaluating someones job after three years and asking yourself whether you should fire someone or not. Three years of 'eh' is enough to piss a lot of people off, but it's a bit rough to say that's firing grounds (unless you're Doherty).
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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VA, should we just shut up and accept whatever comes our way? At what point can we speak out on coach?
VaWolf82
Administrator
Posted 1 month ago
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I fail to see how saying, I don't care about BC has anything to do with being the ultimate judge.
If this was accurate, then I wouldn't have said anything (except that your endless repetition of the same thing is tiresome).
You have (a) told people to quit talking about TOB's record at BC and (b) made the proclaimation that his BC record didn't matter...period. These statements are examples show that you think that you are qualified to say what facts are pertinent to a discussion about TOB and which are not. (Quick clue...excluding data frequently leads to incorrect conclusions.)
VaWolf82
Administrator
Posted 1 month ago
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VA, should we just shut up and accept whatever comes our way? At what point can we speak out on coach?
How do you propose to change what comes our way? Do you really think that endless whining is going to change anything?
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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They are my opinions. They are as important as yours. No more right or wrong. They are no different then someone praising TOB.
McPete
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Rashard Smith: This season's Dom Ellis, who was last season's Neon Deon for all the hyperbole written after he exited the program.
I'm sure it'll hurt not having him, but by how much?
VaWolf82
Administrator
Posted 1 month ago
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They are my opinions. They are as important as yours. No more right or wrong.
I never said anything to the contrary. What I said was:
1) You don't get to decide which facts are pertinent to anyone besides yourself.
2) Endless repetition of the exact same thing is tiresome.
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Let me first say that I am sorry for being an asshole. In my defense I don't think I lead us down the path of Fire TOB? If I did I am sorry for that. I think that most people's opinions of the situation are out there. My original point was, we think we are the only ones that ever suffer injuries. The fact is, it seems that way because we have little depth.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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looks like a camel.
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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The fact is, it seems that way because we have little depth.
There is another thread on depth already (very nice post, 1.25 jigawatt, BTW), but it's a decent point. Unless a player is a key starter/all star kind of player, one player being out for a season shouldn't receive a chicken-little response.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Pride, you are asking for the wrath of god with a comment like that
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Look, Statefan1998, I've pretty much agreed, lock-step, with a lot of what you see, but keep in mind that even though we disagree, most (I hope... or choose to believe) of the posters on here aren't complete morons. People who think we're being too hard on TOB aren't doing so because they are just ignoring facts or have irrational loyalty to TOB... it's because that's just what seems to make sense to them.
That being said.........
Even those who feel TOB needs more slack due to the severe state of the team’s injuries admit that recruiting has been somewhat lacking. I could see someone claiming that’s not as much his fault either just because of what Butch has been up to, but that’s a different rabbit hole all together. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that if injuries are “felt” much worse when we loose someone then typical of a D-1A team, some of that blame can be put on the coaching staff for not recruiting deeper.
If you recall, there have been some mentions of this in the other threads and the response I recall seeing is “TOB has had to do WAY more recruiting then necessary because Chuck left him a bear cupboard.” I’ll readily admit that I don’t know the in’s-and-out’s of our roster at the point when Chuck left, but my opinion of the talent that was on the field and not graduating was that it wasn’t all that bad. Regardless, if you want to make any sort of “point” that the injuries are indirectly TOB’s fault because with a deeper roster he could have absorbed some of the blow, just be ready to get into the “Chuck didn’t leave Tom any players” debate.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Pride, what did I say? Of course I respect their argument. I see where they are coming. I respectfully disagree. It is clear I said something to piss people off. I AM SORRY. By no means was I trying to be disrespectful to anyone's opinion. I was just arguing the point.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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I too, would like to know more about our roster at the time TOB took over.
I would also like to know what TOB could have done about the secondary. As in, was it obvious we would be thin at the position? If he would have recruited more players for this position what other parts of the team would have suffered as a result.
From what I can tell, It was this time last year that we had a real problem because of the players dismissed from the team. So, what has TOB done between then and now? Well he has recruited several position players for the secondary.
From packpride, it looks like we recruited 4 safetys last year. Singer is gone. So we are bringing in 3.
What do you think he could have done other than that to improve the secondary?
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Here is a question. I seem to remember when Tobias Palmer was recruited they recruited him to play CB. I wonder is that is a foreign idea now?
In Hind-sight(sp) the 2008 and 2009 classes should've had more CB's. In defense of TOB, I would think he thought Byrd and Smith would of taken care of the position. Such is the way of the world?
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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What do you think he could have done other than that to improve the secondary?
Put his personal loyalties aside to fire Archer and move Tenuta to DC? It's not like we don't have a track record at NC State and other institutions to draw from.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Irving spoke very highly of Tenuta during recent interviews. He thinks Tenuta is going to have a big influence on the defense. Made comments about his wealth of knowledge very similar to how people describe Bible. He will tell you the history of certain plays, why they are used, how offensive coordinators think etc.
I only hope Archer and Tenuta dont have some sort of conflict on play calling.
This isnt the right thread for this :(
WolfQuacker
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Put his personal loyalties aside to fire Archer and move Tenuta to DC? It's not like we don't have a track record at NC State and other institutions to draw from.
DING DING DING
islandbreeze
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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The last time Tenuta was at an ACC school, he threatened to kill the OC.
WolfQuacker
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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The last time Tenuta was at an ACC school, he threatened to kill the OC.
So when we offer him the DC position, include Anger Management Classes in the package??
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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I disagree, Plz. I hope that Tenuta and Archer fight... constantly. If TOB has some personal connection to this DC, it may take something glaring like that to make the light bulb click.
otisthetowndrunk
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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There is no and has been no injury issue. All teams have injuries, this is football. We have depth issues that injuries bring to light. I don't understand why people bring up ToB's record at BC in his defense. To me it shows that he should know what he is doing. His past record makes these results even less acceptable. True he went 4-8 twice at BC, he was a new coach then. He is not a new coach now.
Maybe if this was his first coaching job I would say cut him some slack. Maybe if he was an alum I would say cut him some slack. But it looks to me that he is just riding this contract out, collecting a paycheck until he retires. With his track record from BC, I say he is half ass-ing it for us. Remember his last year at BC, and he commented on how great it was to see NC State so supportive of its bad team. I am guessing he was thinking "All I have to do there is beat UNC each year and I can coach there until I die" He is a better coach than his record at NC State indicates, which is why I say he needs to go, not a reason to keep him any longer. Having spent many years in management, I could put up with inferior talent that gave me their best, than people who could be great but only half assed it.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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You do realize that, with keeping some of the freshmen redshirted, we only had around 43 healthy players at one point both in 09 and 10.....
Injuries are only an excuse if you have the same number as everyone else. When you have one of the most injured teams in the nation it becomes something quite different.
I refuse to ignore it because it is ignoring the single most important reason we didnt do well last year. The only other thing that is close is the youth of the secondary.
Anyway.....Lets get some games under our belt to get some new talking points.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Plz, i just don't understand how you can say that was the biggest issue last year. How about scheme? Soft coverage in a fast league? Again, like Otis said and I said earlier, this is not an injury issue, it's a depth issue.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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If its depth. Then lets devote 8 kids to every position just in case 2 transfer or leave, and 2 get injured. Then, even if that happens, we can fill a 2 deep.
But you would also have a team with 120 players.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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That is an outstanding point. The only defense I have for that this the following; last year our 2/3 CB Byrd went down with a blown knee in late November, our 1/2 CB suffered a major knee injury, and during the offseason TOB booted the top corner off the team. Why did TOB not bring in juco's and more bodies to throw at the problem? We are a point where we were counting on Smith, a guy with five career games, to steady the position?
TheCOWDOG
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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Hmmm...some of you guys do not understand the scythe of VA. It will cut you down as John Barleycorn.
I just tuned in to see if anyone managed to drag that poor beast off the field and get him to the glue factory. Guess ya'll ain't tired of whackin' it.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
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I know what you are talking about. My wife calls me a loser all the time. I'm just so ready for football. I and looking forward to good seasons from both the Panthers and the Pack.