NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Poor conditioning and training methods comes to mind for sports injuries. I wonder if this could be the case?
Again, I brought this up a while back, and the response I got was "Well, they've considered that and looked into it already! What else do you expect them to do?!" That being said, I smell the same thing you smell. We sure know it isn't poor fuh-cilities.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
TOB addressed the question of looking into what they do in the strength and conditioning yesterday. The journalist asked him if he has looked into what they are doing in the program that could potentially cause these injuries. He basically said the following.
1) They analyzed what they were doing.
2) There is no common cause for the injuries.
3) They are not the same type of injuries.
4) Last year at this time we were down 4 players on defense. Two transfer, two injuries(I think). This year we are down 1.
Smith's injury is from last year btw. Its not new. They did recognize a problem until after the spring game due to pain in his knee.
islandbreeze
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Plz, are you O'brien's wife or one of his daughters?
1 year is a point, and 4 years is trend.
The lack of depth is O'brien's fault. It's his fourth year.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Let's face it, we just think we experience more injuries then most. This is not the case, it happens with every program. It appears that we experience more, because we have no depth at any position. This injury is very concerning to a team that will have the following at the position
Byers
Haynes
Wilson
Grant
Monk (walk on or former walk on)
Amerson (true freshman)
Just as concerning is the depth at safety
Bishop
Wolfe
Coleman
Johnson (true freshman)
Proctor (converted QB)
Again, at what point will we have the depth to compete? And for those who say TOB has not used injuries as excuses, your kidding right?
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Seriously, Plz, the accusation I have against him is that he and his staff are running something in a way that causes injuries. That accusation only makes sense if I am also claiming they are doing it unwittingly since I believe TOB is far too intelligent to continue to carry out a program he knows is causing injuries. I'm not so much claiming that this is gross negligence on his part, just that there is something going on that he's not seeing, or forgetting to review, or being over-looked.
Seriously Plz.... 4 f$#%ing years of injuries. Go back and answer my other question: how many years of "really bad luck" do you tolerate before you say, "the injuries may not be your fault... but the bad luck is. You're fired."?
----------
@StateFan1998; Careful there. Are you actually implying that TOB might *gasp* be expected to play with some injuries?!?! How can anyone be expected to run a successful program with injuries!
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Pride, what I don't understand about their argument is the following. If we are sitting in year 7 of the TOB era, and having the same string of injuries, are his defenders going to be happy with 5-7? Will they still say, look at all the injuries, how do you expect him to compete?
We better wake up fast as a program. We were already starting from behind in the ACC and now UNC, GT, FSU, BC, and Miami are extending the lead, and all of them are still chasing VT.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
We havent had an injury this year fellas.
The injury is from last year.
-------------------------------
No, I am not related to TOB.
-------------------------------
Your claim is
"TOB is not a good football coach because his team has been destroyed by injuries. It is TOB's fault because nobody on his staff, including TOB, can not identify a potential common cause that is making the players more vunerable to injury."
You assume there is a common cause. And you assume that the football staff is doing something different than all the other football programs, and it is ruining the team.
I would argue that the coaching staff isnt incompetent. That they would recognize if they were doing something different. They addressed it specifically.
Your claim could also be that "TOB is unlucky at NC State. And he should be fired because of it."
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
I will want TOB fired if we have the same injuries all the way through year 7.....
1998: If you are saying its TOB's fault that we dont have depth in these areas, thats true. TOB did decide to let the 2 CB's leave the team in the summer of 09. I dont know if it was the players leaving or if it was TOB kicking them off the team. But we would have had 2 more CB's last year if they didnt leave, even if it meant TOB would compromise his discipline principles. And no, he hasnt compromised those principles this year with the players who got in trouble.
islandbreeze
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Discipline? Discipline is the biggest joke of the O'brien era.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
No, he should not be fired for being "unlucky," he should be fired for being 5-7, 6-7, and 5-7.
packplantpath
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
It's a tough call. What were his injury rates at BC? Were they high? If not, what is he doing different here? Did his BC training staff/program follow him here? There are too many unanswered questions for me to make a judgment there, but the implication is certainly there that something has either changed or we are simply having a string of bad luck. Yes, contrary to popular belief, it is a possibility that what we are seeing is simply a string of bad luck. Bad luck can be a valid excuse after all other options have been ruled out. I'm just not close enough to the program to rule out the other likely options. However, even if it is a valid excuse for failing, it doesn't mean you get to keep your job.
1998, we are not falling behind as a program. We have been behind as a program for as long as I can remember (I'm a youngish fan). We had a brief 3 year span under chuck where it looked like we may be breaking out, but that turned out to be a blip on the radar.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
No, he should not be fired for being "unlucky," he should be fired for being 5-7, 6-7, and 5-7.
Well, I am sure BC fans were saying the same thing after TOB's first two years after 4-8 and 4-8.
We know how that turned out.
And BTW. If Russell Wilson doesnt take those extra steps in the bowl game vs Rutgers, he isnt injured. And we win that game. We go 7-5 in 09. So we are, 5-7, 7-5, 5-7. And over his first 3 years he has won more games at NC State then he did at BC.
Just sayin
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
plant, I agree with that and that was what I was trying to say by stating "We were already starting from behind." As I stated before, I my opinion this team needs to win 7 games for TOB to be back in 2011. If we go 5-7 this year, we need to fire him and move on. I think Yow will take that approach.
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Pretty level-headed assessment, packplantpath, and I agree. It's not necessarily that it's a judgement against an individual if they have bad luck with team health. It's often a valid excuse to say "we've been plagued with injuries". What I'm saying is that whether it's his training, his conditioning, or the fact that a mid-evil goblin is following him around and putting stumbling blocks infront of his players, the record doesn't really care. I don't think anyone is saying he should be escorted out of the building today, but I've definitely jumped to the dark side where my default answer for him is "TOB, you need to leave when your contract is up". If we have another 5-win season, I might retreat further back to "TOB, you need to leave now."
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
"And BTW. If Russell Wilson doesnt take those extra steps in the bowl game vs Rutgers, he isnt injured. And we win that game. We go 7-5 in 09. So we are, 5-7, 7-5, 5-7. And over his first 3 years he has won more games at NC State then he did at BC."
If "if's and but's were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas all year long. If I would have won the power ball I would be rich. If I grew to be 7 feet I would play in the NBA. What is your point? They lost and you can't revise history.
Stop this shit about what he did at BC. All I care about is what he does at NCSU. Plz, people like you are the reason the Athletic Department sucks. You accept the status quo and defend coaches who do not win games. You rather make excuses as to why they lose, as opposed to why they should win.
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Well, I am sure BC fans were saying the same thing after TOB's first two years after 4-8 and 4-8.We know how that turned out.
Yeah, we do... a third year ending in 8-4 in the Big East. So, are you putting your money on an 8-win season? If he can pull out 8 wins, I'll gladly cut him some slack. I'm fully prepared for another 2009.
Look, I do the same "defend the coach" thing, too, especially with Sidney Lowe. But with every coach, you have to look at positives and negatives and evaluate what potential there is. If you defend a coach because he's been doing bad, you think there are valid excuses (which don't necessarily keep their job), and you see valid change leading to a potential to improve, then alright, I'm on-board with you. Tell me, what valid, program-changing improvements do you see in TOB? He hired a new DL coach. Woopie. Is he landing some big talent? Is he firing coaches/trainers that are potential pit-falls in the program? What promise of improvement from TOB do you have that we don't?
Pack Mentality
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
In my opinion, I will be unhappy with the coach if we do not have 7 wins after the bowl game. The amount of injuries have absolutely no impact on the number of wins I consider acceptable. To anyone who did use injuries as an excuse in the past I have the following question. What number of wins do you find to be acceptable for TOB this year and is this number subject to change based on injuries?
WolfQuacker
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Why does every football thread turn into a fire / don't fire TOB discussion or argument. None of us are happy with the results to date, but let's give the man a chance this year and THEN see where we are. I'll admit, a 7 win season is a MUST, just because I think the recruiting will continue to take hits with non bowl seasons. But, I think we have to weigh the injuries in the last couple of years, in combination of an empty cupboard left by CtC and give it some time. Four years should be plenty to stock the shelves with quality athletes, if he is capable of getting the job done here.
Wow, I am now guilty of doing exactly what I was bitching about - anyway, let's let it rest a bit and confine it to one thread instead of consuming every football thread on the board.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
No. You guys have no idea what I am like. I was calling for Herbs head, and I was calling for Chucks head. If Lowe doesnt produce this year, he should be fired.
TOB is a good footbal coach. That is my fundamental arguement.
You can not ignore the injuries and claim he should perform the same or better than coaches who have a fraction of the amount of injuries we have had.
My point about he 4-8, 4-8 seasons is that if you look at the W's L's for such a short time frame you have absolutly no idea where the program is trending.
I can see what he is doing for the program to get the W's we need. Its just being obliterated by the overwhelming injuries.
He is a good football coach. Period.
He has to win now obviously. I agree that another 5 win season is hard to deal with. Especially if the karma pendulum swings the other way and we dont have nearly as many injuries as last year. And if this happens it becomes incredibly hard to make my arguements anymore. He has got to produce. We can all agree on this.
Remember, TOB is coming up on year 4. Sidney is going into year 5.
Pack Mentality
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Why does every football thread turn into a fire / don't fire TOB discussion or argument.
4 straight losing seasons.
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
3 under TOB.
1 under Chuck
Pack Mentality
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
^understood...but that's the reason for the discussion...same fan base...same # of losing seasons...IN A ROW
islandbreeze
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
My contention is that O'brien is a below mediocre coach just like his sub .500 Big East record.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
plz, I see what you are making an argument for. TOB went 4-8 and 4-8, then in season three he won 8 games. The problem is, this is not year three here. I have seen nothing that shows me we are headed in the right direction. Recruiting this year is so sad, and pessimism is running at an all time high. I would love for him to shove an 8 win season in my face, but does anyone think that is going to happen?
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
island is right on. In another post I showed his record against VT and Miami. He won 2 games against VT and none against Miami. The Big East sucked in football, so who did he beat? This notion of "look what he did at BC" is BS. He could not beat the good teams.
VaWolf82
Administrator
Posted 1 month ago
#
Stop this shit about what he did at BC. All I care about is what he does at NCSU.
Who made you the ultimate judge of what is and isn't important when evaluating our coaches?
Grow up and learn that you can't control what other people tbink or how they reach their decisions. You would influence more people's opinions with rational discussion than with your constant whining. At your present rate, you are far more likely to be ingnored than to influence anyone else. [/free advice]
NCStatePride
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
You would influence more people's opinions with rational discussion than with your constant whining.
I know you were referring to a poster, but this applies in a funny way to the current topic: so far the biggest defense of TOB has been "but he's had injuries!" If year-in and year-out he continues to have injuries (assuming that injuries to become a problem this season... let's not lose sight that this thread is only about one guy), then at what point in time is someone defending TOB via "he has injuries" more of a 'constant whining' defense rather then a 'rational discussion' defense?
In a weird way, you kind of tapped on why so many are getting frustrated with the injuries tune: it just sounds like whining.
Statefan1998
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
VA, Sorry for tapping into a nerve. I fail to see how saying, I don't care about BC has anything to do with being the ultimate judge. The facts are the facts. He has failed at NCSU thus far. Again, not being as smart as you I fail to see how I am whining by saying I don't care what he did somewhere else. I am clearly tired of hearing what he did somewhere else, do it here!
islandbreeze
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
Dan Hawkins was a "good" coach at Boise State, and what is his record at Colorado?
Plz2BStateFan
Member
Posted 1 month ago
#
I am done with the TOB fire/not fire etc until I see some football this year. I want to see how this staff deals with the problems from last year.